Money Concerns in Bloomington? [Archive]

Quacky

01-16-2009, 05:14 PM

The league says that Bloomington is in "good standing"... (http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2009/01/16/news/doc4970e87971289259415196.txt)

...but what does that really mean? They paid their annual fee at the beginning of the season. Everything else is local.

Pickard says things are good, then says,

“On a day to day basis, I’m not physically there to know whether they’re behind or anything like that.

Quacky

01-16-2009, 05:15 PM

Simple question....how exactly can it be that the "overall health" of a six-league team be good when one third of that league isn't making payroll on a regular basis??! :shock:

Pickard termed the overall health of the six-team IHL “good” despite the problems with the Thunder and similar financial concerns with the franchise in Flint, Mich.

Flint didn’t pay its players for three weeks earlier this season and has been plagued by declining attendance. The IHL needs must have six teams to meet immigration requirements or the league would have to fold.

Quacky

01-16-2009, 05:18 PM

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2009/01/16/news/doc496fc1d3e99fc990663860.txt

Sounds as if the Coliseum Authority is sick of dealing with this stuff for two years out of three and are looking for an out....

This very much coincides with what I've heard, which includes the USHL visiting Bloomington for a look-see. Exploring options??!

silvershoes

01-16-2009, 05:41 PM

Simple question....how exactly can it be that the "overall health" of a six-league team be good when one third of that league isn't making payroll on a regular basis??! :shock:

Which third would that be exactly?

silvershoes

01-16-2009, 05:45 PM

Sounds as if the Coliseum Authority is sick of dealing with this stuff for two years out of three and are looking for an out....

This very much coincides with what I've heard, which includes the USHL visiting Bloomington for a look-see. Exploring options??!

You know, from the history of this franchise the one common denominator has been the Butler/Nelson management of the Coliseum. I mean, there were documents that they were behind in payments when they owned the PT. And they were partners with Lisman last year.

If I were the city I'd look into the PT but I'd also be looking at them. They're not the only venue management company out there ... but they've had issues from the start.

pioneer98

01-16-2009, 05:51 PM

Which third would that be exactly?

Flint and Bloomington.

2/6 = One third.

silvershoes

01-16-2009, 07:31 PM

Then you're gonna hate this:

Hamm blog (http://www.pantagraph.com/blogs/main/?p=3477)

From everyone I’ve talked to, including former Thunder player Don Parsons who was waived last week in another public relations disaster, the boys are getting paid on time and it’s business as usual on the ice.

I personally saw an order of new sticks being delivered prior to Tuesday’s practice, and the mood of the team was high coming off a pair of big road wins the previous weekend.

FWKRTJ

01-16-2009, 07:41 PM

I don't think it was necessary to move this to the hockey rumors considering there is "PRINT" information on it....

kyle1512

01-16-2009, 10:36 PM

You know, from the history of this franchise the one common denominator has been the Butler/Nelson management of the Coliseum. I mean, there were documents that they were behind in payments when they owned the PT. And they were partners with Lisman last year.

If I were the city I'd look into the PT but I'd also be looking at them. They're not the only venue management company out there ... but they've had issues from the start.

Butler and Nelson were bought out before last season. They had no stake in the team last year. Butler and Nelson have to keep a hockey and football team in US Cellular Coliseum or they could be replaced as arena managers. The city of Bloomington could turn to any arena management company that bids for the contract.

silvershoes

01-17-2009, 08:37 AM

Butler and Nelson were bought out before last season. They had no stake in the team last year.
Then they forgot to tell the Illinois secretary of state, because their names continued to be listed on the state web site.

IncaCHIEFS

01-17-2009, 10:46 AM

I don't think it was necessary to move this to the hockey rumors considering there is "PRINT" information on it....

Just a way of keepin it off of the IHL Board, so you don't know what's going on in the league. They like to keep their "dirt" under the rug.

-------
and what would you expect the commissioner of the league to come out and say, yes, we are having troubles, maybe we won't make it through the year - I have started to look for another job just in case.
He wants things to APPEAR ok, when they are not.

Flint, Port Huron and Bloomington all have had problems or are having problems, face the facts, goet on with the season and hopefully everyone will survive.

Quacky

01-17-2009, 11:09 AM

One of the games we attended in Bloomy was announced as a sellout....and there were two other people besides us in the entire upper level of our section! In fact, there wasn't much more than a half-full section throughout the Coliseum.

It was an "autograph night" and apparently parents and teens bought a ticket, got in line, got their autographs, and left. That isn't really exposing new fans to hockey....and it proves that ownership can announce anything they want.

One of the big problems we have with Bloomy is the cost of concessions. I paid nearly twice as much for popcorn (in a smaller container) than we do at games in the QC! No beverages or other food....so expensive that we waited til after the game and went somewhere to eat.

Yes, the STHer base might be good, but every team needs the casual fan, too. And if Bloomington has a good STHer base but isn't drawing through the gate, that's going to reflect in the numbers that the Authority is looking at. On the night we went, walk-up tickets on the glass were still available an hour before game time.....so some people paid a lot to get an autograph!!!

Hans

01-18-2009, 04:18 PM

Then they forgot to tell the Illinois secretary of state, because their names continued to be listed on the state web site.
Funny, because the IHL league offices and every communication from the league last year stated the official line that Lisman bought out Butler and Nelson during the 2007 off-season.

Hans

01-18-2009, 04:20 PM

I don't think it was necessary to move this to the hockey rumors considering there is "PRINT" information on it....
I myself also wondered why this was moved when the whole thread started because of a link to a Pantagraph story -- I thought that was the required standard to post before there -was- a Rumors forum?

Hans

01-18-2009, 04:21 PM

Then you're gonna hate this:

Hamm blog (http://www.pantagraph.com/blogs/main/?p=3477)
Most people, no matter their message board politics, are very pleased to hear that the players are being paid on time -- it is ALWAYS good news when the kids who sacrifice their bodies and health for our entertainment are getting the money they are contractually obligated to.

Demon Candy

01-18-2009, 11:48 PM

I don't think it was necessary to move this to the hockey rumors considering there is "PRINT" information on it....

It was moved to this forum because of some of the posts in the thread, that were more rumors than not. Posts aren't going to be deleted just because of rumor ... if it pertains to the thread and the thread is the type to bring upon more rumors than the thread will be moved here.

FWKRTJ

01-19-2009, 06:34 PM

Thanks for the clarification :)

FWKRTJ

01-19-2009, 06:35 PM

Hans

01-20-2009, 05:02 PM

Has there been any more on this situation? Be it rumor or published article?

Quacky

01-21-2009, 05:46 AM

What date was this? I've never remembered seeing Bloomington post a sell-out number wise in the box scores...

December 13th. I have no idea what capacity is. I only know what they announced at the game....that it was a sellout. The crowd went wild!

Quacky

01-21-2009, 05:53 AM

Has there been any more on this situation? Be it rumor or published article?

Only this, (http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2009/01/21/prairiethunder/doc49717e76f0d85857954422.txt) as far as I can find.

Seems odd to me that it's been 10 days and the two groups are still "attempting to meet". Must not be a priority for one of the groups!

qcflamesfan

01-21-2009, 07:29 PM

They did fire the equipment manager and the assistant equipment manager down there and only replaced one of them.

mfrerkes

01-22-2009, 09:55 AM

Sounds as if the Coliseum Authority is sick of dealing with this stuff for two years out of three and are looking for an out....
Funny how your speculative nature runs rampant when it's somebody else's team, but when Calgary starts talking to Canadian cities about relocating the Flames....

Well, that's just meaningless hearsay.

mfrerkes

01-22-2009, 10:13 AM

Has there been any more on this situation? Be it rumor or published article?
A member of the QC Flames personnel (who shall remain nameless) told Dobbles, PIMking, and myself during the Friday, January 9th home game versus Toronto that Bloomington was folding, and soon. He believed they were folding within a week of his announcement to us...obviously that did not happen. Nevertheless, he seemed quite certain the team was not going to make it to the end of this season, and he has been a reliable source on past "scoops", so I don't think he was talking smack.

QuackerBacker35

01-22-2009, 05:52 PM

A member of the QC Flames personnel (who shall remain nameless) told Dobbles, PIMking, and myself during the Friday, January 9th home game versus Toronto that Bloomington was folding, and soon. He believed they were folding within a week of his announcement to us...obviously that did not happen. Nevertheless, he seemed quite certain the team was not going to make it to the end of this season, and he has been a reliable source on past "scoops", so I don't think he was talking smack.

Maybe you should head on down there and put to use your genius marketing sense and save the franchise! :cheer:

VDOJAQ

01-22-2009, 07:45 PM

A member of the QC Flames personnel (who shall remain nameless) told Dobbles, PIMking, and myself during the Friday, January 9th home game versus Toronto that Bloomington was folding, and soon. He believed they were folding within a week of his announcement to us...obviously that did not happen. Nevertheless, he seemed quite certain the team was not going to make it to the end of this season, and he has been a reliable source on past "scoops", so I don't think he was talking smack.

Yet, you chastised the hell out of me for all the Hounds news I had and told me that I was full of it because I wouldn't reveal my source(s).

Now, who is in the same position? Eat it pal!!!!!!!!!

Wiggle your way out of this one.......I am waiting

mfrerkes

01-22-2009, 08:24 PM

Yet, you chastised the hell out of me for all the Hounds news I had and told me that I was full of it because I wouldn't reveal my source(s).

Now, who is in the same position? Eat it pal!!!!!!!!!

Wiggle your way out of this one.......I am waiting
Re-read the post, moron. He told me the rumor back on January 9th that Bloomington was going to fold within that week. Obviously that didn't happen, which is why I held off posting his rumor until after the timeframe expired.

You ran full-speed with a false rumor on the non-rumor IHL board, saying it was 100% certain the Hounds were returning for 2008. That was absolutely false, yet you kept posting for weeks and weeks, saying it was true.

I know better than pass off rumor as fact, whereas you do not.

Not even close to the same position, pal!!!!!!!

mfrerkes

01-22-2009, 08:30 PM

Maybe you should head on down there and put to use your genius marketing sense and save the franchise! :cheer:
Why don't you take your phony outrage to the Pantagraph message board and chastise all the respondents who didn't say enough positive things in the newspaper to save the franchise.

VDOJAQ

01-22-2009, 09:45 PM

Re-read the post, moron. He told me the rumor back on January 9th that Bloomington was going to fold within that week. Obviously that didn't happen, which is why I held off posting his rumor until after the timeframe expired.

You ran full-speed with a false rumor on the non-rumor IHL board, saying it was 100% certain the Hounds were returning for 2008. That was absolutely false, yet you kept posting for weeks and weeks, saying it was true.

I know better than pass off rumor as fact, whereas you do not.

Not even close to the same position, pal!!!!!!!

Wait, let me get this striaght! I have the same info as the owner of the Chicago franchise, Paul Pickard, head of the IHL, Owners of the Polar Dome property, and I have false "rumors". There is a difference between truthful information, and a rumor. Information comes from a factful source. Rumors happen as the wind blows. Example: Mfrerkes is a normal person. That is a complete rumor, I dont know you from Adam. However, Mfrerkes is a blowhard that posts nonsense all over ITB, that is factful information. How do I know? I read your posts, you should not be proud of yourself.

However, you heard from a person who works for Q.C. , which has no direct affiliation with Bloomington, and that is worth gold?

You are the MORON!!! An incoherent, babling fool, that takes sides on both sides of the fence. Hey , WalMart called , they have a job for you as a shopping cart jockey. You know, equal opportunity for the mentally challenged. At $7 an hour you might be able to move out of your mother's basement someday.

Face it, you are nothing more than a fair weather hockey fan that has no clue of any sort of reality. If you are jealous that others are more knowledgeable than you, that is ok. I am sure you could take another jackass class or two at your local community college.

QuackerBacker35

01-22-2009, 09:48 PM

Why don't you take your phony outrage to the Pantagraph message board and chastise all the respondents who didn't say enough positive things in the newspaper to save the franchise.

Who said it was phony?

mfrerkes

01-22-2009, 10:46 PM

However, you heard from a person who works for Q.C. , which has no direct affiliation with Bloomington, and that is worth gold?
It was worth nothing, which is why I didn't post the rumor upon hearing it. What part of that sentence can't your drug-addled brain comprehend?

If I operated the way you did regarding that false Chicago Hounds rumor, I'd already have a thread dated January 9th talking about Bloomington folding in a week. There is no such post because I didn't fully believe the guy's story. You, on the other hand, ran with a completely false rumor and said it was 100% guaranteed that the Hounds were a go for 2008-09.

mfrerkes

01-22-2009, 11:05 PM

Who said it was phony?
All that outrage over one comment I made in the QC Times was overblown...theatrical...sanctimonious. In other words, phony.

Your whole pietistic mentality about Flames hockey does not help the team anymore than my candid comment regarding their future hurt the team. Let's get real for a moment.

If either one of our words actually had that much power, we wouldn't be sitting here in this forum debating stupid sh** like this.

VDOJAQ

01-22-2009, 11:38 PM

It was worth nothing, which is why I didn't post the rumor upon hearing it. What part of that sentence can't your drug-addled brain comprehend?

If I operated the way you did regarding that false Chicago Hounds rumor, I'd already have a thread dated January 9th talking about Bloomington folding in a week. There is no such post because I didn't fully believe the guy's story. You, on the other hand, ran with a completely false rumor and said it was 100% guaranteed that the Hounds were a go for 2008-09.

Ok, using your word "scoop" , I point blank ask the following:

The "scoops" that I got, that came from property owners of the PD/SV, the owner of the Chicago IHL franchise, by my friend at the East Dundee Village Hall, and echoed by Paul Pickard, Commissioner of the IHL, were all false rumor, is that your contention?

There are only 2 acceptable answers, yes or no.

mfrerkes

01-23-2009, 12:53 AM

The "scoops" that I got, that came from property owners of the PD/SV, the owner of the Chicago IHL franchise, by my friend at the East Dundee Village Hall, and echoed by Paul Pickard, Commissioner of the IHL, were all false rumor, is that your contention?
There is no contention about it: the Hounds did not/are not playing in the 2008-09 season.

Polish the turd all you want. You ran with the story that the Hounds were 100% guaranteed to play this season. They did not and you looked like an idiot. Don't blame me for your stupid decisions.

Quacky

01-23-2009, 03:53 AM

Funny how your speculative nature runs rampant when it's somebody else's team, but when Calgary starts talking to Canadian cities about relocating the Flames....

Well, that's just meaningless hearsay.

Check out the name of this forum.

You can be speculative in a rumor forum.... because it's all, um, rumors!

VDOJAQ

01-23-2009, 11:18 AM

There is no contention about it: the Hounds did not/are not playing in the 2008-09 season.

Polish the turd all you want. You ran with the story that the Hounds were 100% guaranteed to play this season. They did not and you looked like an idiot. Don't blame me for your stupid decisions.

Well sir , by once again skirting the question at hand shows your true colors. You cannot even answer yes or no to one question.

I guess I dont blame you for not answering because if had answered yes, it makes you look like the complete fool that you are. If you had answered no, then you would have been contradicting your own statements and opinions, therefore making you an even bigger fool.

Again, I stand by all of my information to be true to the best of my knowlegde at any given point. It do not "make up" rumors or information. I take it from the horses mouth and reveal what I can without too much trouble for doing so. It is easy for someone like yourself , who has no f'ing clue about where I get anything of source, to call it rumor and lies. If something does not happen because circumstances change, that does not make the information that I pass on rumor or lies. It means circumstances have changed, which they did, and the Hounds did not play this season. In your peanut sized mind, you need to pound your chest, get up on a soap box, and say look at me, I told you so, your are full of bs. When, quite frankly, you had ZERO clue as to the inner workings of what really happened. And everytime you are pulled to point, your only defense is , well they are not playing, you are a liar and spew BS. DO you not realize that anyone with any sort of competence can see right through what a shallow individual you are? Do you and Al Gore take credit for creating the internet?

Again, those who know me, and there are many, know my involvement in hockey. They know the real truth and they know who the real fool is. Obviously you are blindfolded by truth, so what does that leave....?

mfrerkes

01-23-2009, 06:14 PM

It do not "make up" rumors or information. I take it from the horses mouth and reveal what I can without too much trouble for doing so.
I never said you made up rumors. I just said you post wrong information; i.e. The Chicago Hounds were coming back to play this season. Then, instead of taking personal responsibility for posting false information, you conveniently blame sources who trusted you to keep this information under your hat in the first place. You have no ethics, nor personal accountability.

VDOJAQ

01-23-2009, 07:56 PM

I never said you made up rumors. I just said you post wrong information; i.e. The Chicago Hounds were coming back to play this season. Then, instead of taking personal responsibility for posting false information, you conveniently blame sources who trusted you to keep this information under your hat in the first place. You have no ethics, nor personal accountability.

I take full responsibilty for anything I say. And I have never blamed my sources. Please show me where I have? I have asked YOU if my sources were giving false information, and you will not answer that. You quickly point out that I give false information. I have asked you does that mean Paul Pickard was given false information, you skirt that question too.

The definition of giving false information, now read slowly here, is knowingly providing information that is not the truth.

If you can , at any time, prove that any of the information I passed along about the Hounds was "knowingly" false, I will come to a QC game and personally apologize and buy you a beer. That is from a man of his word!

Hold tight folks, the reply to this one should be good!!!

silvershoes

01-23-2009, 10:48 PM

Has there been any more on this situation? Be it rumor or published article?

Not published, but a dandy series of podcasts on the site for one of the local radio stations. Leighton's is to the point and brings up a number of issues with arena management; McBurney's includes the statement things were said in public that never should have been; and Nelson's is much lower key and full of "we didn't means." All say the PT are much healthier than they have been in the past.

silvershoes

01-23-2009, 10:51 PM

VDOJAQ

01-24-2009, 01:19 AM

Lets put the hockey situation this way, no team in the IHL, including Bloomy, is going to fold before season's end, period. There will be hockey next year, however, the AA level landscape is going to be vastly different.

Worry when the season is over, because the silly season is going to be downright nasty!

I can assure all that there is plenty of behind the scenes manuevering already taking place. This is not "false" information.

mfrerkes

01-24-2009, 09:55 AM

If you can , at any time, prove that any of the information I passed along about the Hounds was "knowingly" false, I will come to a QC game and personally apologize and buy you a beer. That is from a man of his word!
Well, if you're going to attend a QC game, you had better it make it this season.

Ya know...just to be safe. :grin:

mfrerkes

01-24-2009, 09:58 AM

He doesn't look like an idiot at all, mfrerkes. Everything he said was true; it was a very fluid situation.
Everything?!?! Okay. Fine. VDOJAQ is a great guy and did nothing wrong.

Can we just bury the hatchet on all this BS? It has exceeded the statute of limitations for being interesting at this point.

VDOJAQ

01-24-2009, 12:31 PM

Well, if you're going to attend a QC game, you had better it make it this season.

Ya know...just to be safe. :grin:

Sounds like the hatchet has been buried to me.

If you guys lose your team again, I would feel bad for all.

However, I think hockey would continue in Q.C. in another form at the AA level. Problem is anyone who would take another shot at fielding a team at that level is going to have to realize that it will take a minor miracle to win the fans back. A 3 year period would be my thought.

mfrerkes

01-24-2009, 01:38 PM

If you guys lose your team again, I would feel bad for all.

However, I think hockey would continue in Q.C. in another form at the AA level. Problem is anyone who would take another shot at fielding a team at that level is going to have to realize that it will take a minor miracle to win the fans back. A 3 year period would be my thought.
I couldn't agree with you more on that point, but many of my fellow Flames fans hate me for bringing that up. The fan support situation here in the Quad Cities has been in critical condition for several years now, and landing the AHL was not the boost many (including myself) thought it would be. Personally, I feel this current season is going to be the make-or-break scenario for professional hockey remaining in the Quad Cities.

Funny to think that 10 years ago the Mallards were drawing more than Fort Wayne is right now.

Quacky

01-27-2009, 02:18 PM

Has there been any more on this situation? Be it rumor or published article?

Here's a podcast with Leighton (http://www.wjbc.com/Tabid/7997/default.aspx?AID=2787) within a day or so of the article.....

And here's one with Jerry McBurney... (http://www.wjbc.com/Tabid/7997/default.aspx?AID=2797)

Finally, with Nelson. (http://www.wjbc.com/Tabid/7997/default.aspx?AID=2784) Though this looks long, Nelson is in the first segment after the intro....

Apparently all can agree that the PT are doing better than last year.....beyond that, there doesn't seem to be anything too concrete, other than they're unanamously in agreement that the Lisman deal last year was not good!