ECHL Bakersfield Condors coach & Assistant suspended

[Kenaifan]

Here you go guys. Let the rumors fly -- why do YOU think they were suspended? Anything goes lets hear the crazy stories. Enquiring minds want to know.

[Thatkid]

They were suspended for making a comment jewish comment about jason Baily.

[Kenaifan]

That sounds like a pretty harsh penalty for just making a jewish comment.

[kingzrule]

They were suspended for making a comment jewish comment about jason Baily.

That is Funny!

[kingzrule]

I heard that Pederson staged a cage match between Hank Carisio and Jason Bailey to see who the worst fighter on the team is and Raymond was the referee. Apparently neither guy landed any punches after 3 rounds of holding on to one another and spinning around in circles. Pederson and raymond were so mad that they started slamming doors, kicking water coolers and screaming profanities at the two (thats probably where the Jewish comments came into play). Too bad Riley and Fleisig were not there, it would have been nice for them to get suspended as well.

[Thatkid]

That would make for a funny story though. I think they would have let the press in on that.

News at 5!!

Sorry kenaifan- It is indeed what happen. Enough for the lawyers to be called in. It was bad!

[condorsfan]

I was told that some locker room banter was going on, Pederson made a comment about Bailey's jewish heritage... Things got heated...
Marty shipped Bailey off to Iowa and told them he would NEVER play him, even if sent back here.. Bailey thinking he is the superstar he is not, cried to either the team or the league about Pederson's comment.. and well the rest is history..

My friend is the station manager for the local United Express carrier.. Mark got a plane ticket last week, he was supposed to leave on Thursday but called her and told her to hold on to it that he had some loose ends to tie up with some of the players...

Players respect Mark, but can't stand Marty..

A fellow boarder was the post office and overheard a hockey player (affiliated player no less) say that he wouldn't come back here next year even if Iowa sent him that he couldn't stand the coach yada yada yada.. said he would be home the first part of April, when he was confronted by the boarder, he said his name was Tom Morrow, but she knew who Morrow was as he was standing next to him.. she told him, your not Tom Morrow, he is Tom Morrow.. She engaged him in conversation about the playoffs, he just rolled his eyes when she said they would make it...

Sounds like the team is really distant...

[JJmodesto]

That sounds crazy! Too bad about the uneasiness in the lockerroom. The team has a good shot at the last playoff spot. Im glad to see Sean Venedam behind the bench.

[legalspy]

That sounds like a pretty harsh penalty for just making a jewish comment.
www.adl.org/ (http://www.adl.org/)

[MaMaMonkey]

If he had made a racist comment to an African-american palyer, he would have been fired.

I know enough Jewish people in hockey to know that this goes on far too much and Raymond and Pederson should be made an example of. If this is in face what happened, they should be fired. I hope this hits the media and the ADL is all over him and the Condors organization for allowing anti-Semites to keep their job. Nobody should be subjected to ridicule because of their religion or race.

[Sander]

......Nobody should be subjected to ridicule because of their religion or race.

He was riduculed becasue he hasn't given much effort, not because of his heritage. Specific words used might have been unfortunate, but do not change the gist, if you want to play, act like it!

[MaMaMonkey]

He was riduculed becasue he hasn't given much effort, not because of his heritage. Specific words used might have been unfortunate, but do not change the gist, if you want to play, act like it!

Fair enough, but there is no need to use words like that. Pederson and Raymond should be fired immediately.

[Bill682]

this was in the Bako paper today. We don't know exactly what was said in the locker room so we will have to let the front office decide how to punish everyone and move on.


NOTES

* Condors coach Marty Raymond, who was suspended seven days by team management for what was called an "internal matter" will rejoin the team today, said Condors President Matthew Riley. Riley also said assistant coach Mark Pederson would rejoin the team a week from today.

[Chuckles]

A fellow boarder was the post office and overheard a hockey player (affiliated player no less) say that he wouldn't come back here next year even if Iowa sent him that he couldn't stand the coach yada yada yada.. said he would be home the first part of April, when he was confronted by the boarder, he said his name was Tom Morrow, but she knew who Morrow was as he was standing next to him.. she told him, your not Tom Morrow, he is Tom Morrow.. She engaged him in conversation about the playoffs, he just rolled his eyes when she said they would make it...


The guy is willing to mouth off but not willing to own what he says? Classy.
Whoever it is, I hope he keeps his word and doesn't come back.

[legalspy]

If he had made a racist comment to an African-american palyer, he would have been fired.

I know enough Jewish people in hockey to know that this goes on far too much and Raymond and Pederson should be made an example of. If this is in face what happened, they should be fired. I hope this hits the media and the ADL is all over him and the Condors organization for allowing anti-Semites to keep their job. Nobody should be subjected to ridicule because of their religion or race.
I would think that the ECHL will not appreciate how things have been handled if or when this becomes public and people see that the coaches were able to return.

[legalspy]

Specific words used might have been unfortunate, but do not change the gist,
Racist comments are more than "unfortunate" and should have been treated as such but the organization. I don't know many people that could keep their jobs after making ANY racial comments towards another individual or group. The "gist" is that the coaches don't like the player and his being jewish plays a part obvioulsly or it wouldn't have been mentioned several times by the coaches.

[woodbutcher]

If he had made a racist comment to an African-american palyer, he would have been fired.

I know enough Jewish people in hockey to know that this goes on far too much and Raymond and Pederson should be made an example of. If this is in face what happened, they should be fired. I hope this hits the media and the ADL is all over him and the Condors organization for allowing anti-Semites to keep their job. Nobody should be subjected to ridicule because of their religion or race.

Oh relax, it was locker room b.s. that was blown out of proportion because Bailey felt he was being unfairly benched. The kid doesn't have the talent and needs to face the facts instead of whining about some off the cuff comment made in jest. We have had players of all races and creeds play here and we have never had a problem before, why should this kid be any different? Maybe he should just toughen up and grow some sack. The part that bothers me is the Condors didn't show any loyalty to their coaches, especially Pederson. I predict that will come back to haunt them in the future.

[hockey]

I don't understand. I love racist jokes, because intelligent people know racism is dead and now the jokes are just inaccurate stereo types. When people stop being offended is when racism ends. If this player was offended then he did not like the person saying it for other reasons. If a person he did not have any opinion about said it, he would have just brushed it off. But if he does not like the person, then he is going to act offended to use the culturally accepted racism attribute.

Words only have meaning because individuals decide they do. Instead of, "if a tree fell in the forest", it's "if a mamal made a sound". That's all words are, mamal sounds. If someone smiled and said something racist in chinese to you, you would probably smile back and say they are a polite person. Racism is in your heart, not others. You can't stop those around you from being ignorant, you can only ignore them and not make it relevent.

Note: I spent years in Hawaii as a child where young white people are a minority and treated as such. I am not ignorant to racism, I just choose not to continue the cycle.

[hockey]

www.adl.org/ (http://www.adl.org/)

ADL is ignorant to the fact that they are part of the reason racism still exists. If a kid acts up to get attention and you ignore him, he is less likely to act up in the future. If you punish him then he knows that if he does the same action he will get attention.

The only reason racism will exist in 50 years is because of people like the ADL, Jesse Jackson and bad parents.

[Crusty]

I don't understand. I love racist jokes, because intelligent people know racism is dead and now the jokes are just inaccurate stereo types. When people stop being offended is when racism ends. If this player was offended then he did not like the person saying it for other reasons. If a person he did not have any opinion about said it, he would have just brushed it off. But if he does not like the person, then he is going to act offended to use the culturally accepted racism attribute.

Words only have meaning because individuals decide they do. Instead of, "if a tree fell in the forest", it's "if a mamal made a sound". That's all words are, mamal sounds. If someone smiled and said something racist in chinese to you, you would probably smile back and say they are a polite person. Racism is in your heart, not others. You can't stop those around you from being ignorant, you can only ignore them and not make it relevent.

Note: I spent years in Hawaii as a child where young white people are a minority and treated as such. I am not ignorant to racism, I just choose not to continue the cycle.

Yeah, but the opposite is true, too. If you really dislike someone, a real good way to beat them down in an argument is to insult them where it hurts most. To be called a Jew isn't exactly a compliment, even if in today's world the word doesn't mean what it used to. If someone calls me a fag in certain contexts then obviously I laugh about it... hell I call myself a fag too. But the fact is if a superior- or even another colleague who clearly didn't like me, called me a fag or referred to me as a fag in a negative way in a conversation with me or with someone else, then it's clearly not being used in the same context and such use deserves rebuke.

[Sander]

Racist comments are more than "unfortunate" and should have been treated as such but the organization. I don't know many people that could keep their jobs after making ANY racial comments towards another individual or group. The "gist" is that the coaches don't like the player and his being jewish plays a part obvioulsly or it wouldn't have been mentioned several times by the coaches.

Racist comments can certainly be more than unfortunate. However, I think in this circumstance the comments were as Crusty alluded to "a real good way to beat them down in an argument is to insult them where it hurts most." I don't think these comments were intented to slam a race or religious group, they were personal. They were mean-spirited with the purpose of motivating or getting across frustration over the fact that a hockey player was not producing anywhere near potential; infuriating total lack of effort. This issue is not about racism or religious persecution, it is about unfortunatate words used in the heat of a power struggle between coach and player. Calling it racism, when there is no real evidence any of these people are actually racist, is unproductive.

The comments were unfortunate and took away from the message trying to be communicated. That said, had they been fired, I probably wouldn't have lost any sleep; but I don't think the general cause of racism would have benefitted in any way. Overreacting to words spoken in the heat of an arguement is like "crying wolf", when real issues come up you may not be taken seriously.

The comments needed to be "rebuked" as Crusty said. They were.

[TIO]

I don't understand. I love racist jokes, because intelligent people know racism is dead and now the jokes are just inaccurate stereo types. When people stop being offended is when racism ends. If this player was offended then he did not like the person saying it for other reasons. If a person he did not have any opinion about said it, he would have just brushed it off. But if he does not like the person, then he is going to act offended to use the culturally accepted racism attribute.

Actually, I think a large percentage of racist/ethnic jokes are based on very accurate stereotypes. That's why they're funny much of the time.


Note: I spent years in Hawaii as a child where young white people are a minority and treated as such. I am not ignorant to racism, I just choose not to continue the cycle.

I love this... you are either an Alaska Native growing up in "your land" or a little cracker boy growing up in hostile Hawaii, depending on what is needed to support your argument. You, my friend, need therapy.

[hockey]

I love this... you are either an Alaska Native growing up in "your land" or a little cracker boy growing up in hostile Hawaii, depending on what is needed to support your argument. You, my friend, need therapy.

You say it from the negative point of view. I have had a great oppertunity to have lived in more then one community. Many people are the same way.

Oh, and they don't say cracker in Hawaii. It's haole.

[Copper Hill]

Here's a question. Are the remarks that were made more "okay" because they were aimed at a player that you guys are suggesting is an underperforming primadonna? Would they have been less "okay" if they were targeted at a fan favorite, top scorer?

The comments were wrong, regardless of what you guys think of the player they were thrown at.

[woodbutcher]

Here is a question for you, if Bailey was cracking Jew jokes about himself prior to the coaches comment, does he have the right to be offended?

[Crusty]

Here is a question for you, if Bailey was cracking Jew jokes about himself prior to the coaches comment, does he have the right to be offended?

If you're intimating that Bailey was seeking to instigate the situation, then that's a whole seperate story. At face value, yes, he does have a right to be offended. It's still not okay for bosses to make those kinds of comments.

[chip_s_ahoy]

...I love racist jokes, because intelligent people know racism is dead...

I don't know what happened in the locker room, but intelligent people would have stopped typing before typing either of those statements.

[legalspy]

I can tell friends a racial joke and it be okay as long as nobody is offended. Its easy for racial jokes or comments to cross the line so one needs to be careful not to offend.

However, in a work enviroment, no racial jokes or comments can be tolerated in any situation. If someone (especially someone in authority) says a racial joke or racial comment in a belittling, disparaging or disrespectful way towards me or someone around me, yes, I will be offended and he is likely to get a fist to the mouth or I could choose to take legal action instead.

I personally have never been around a jewish person telling jew jokes or making disparaging words about jews but I'm sure it happens.

Here is a question for you, if Bailey was cracking Jew jokes about himself prior to the coaches comment, does he have the right to be offended?

[uss_essess]

I would think that the ECHL will not appreciate how things have been handled if or when this becomes public and people see that the coaches were able to return.
Prophetic.

[hockey]

Its always interesting when you get to look back at your own statements when only part of the information was presented to you. To see how you handled yourself and what you might have changed in your opinions and views over 2 years. I will say that had the situation been more in tune with the commentary I gave I would still agree with my original opinion. But the facts seem to be different in that this was not a racist joke or an off color joke said amongst friends. This was alleged racist actions bookend with specific comments. So if this new information is true my past commentary doesn't really apply. Ess thanks for finding this thread. It was a good personal new media social exercise.

[hawkeybawl]

I would think that the ECHL will not appreciate how things have been handled if or when this becomes public and people see that the coaches were able to return.

If or when this becomes public?

It's being discussed here, so it's already public.